particle board subfloor

When we first started thinking about replacing our floors, I’ll admit we were a little naive. About three deck boards in my hubby was ready to call someone for the demo. Discussion Starter • #1 • Jan 11, 2011. To lower the overhead costs, contractors tend towards forming... Why Is My Doorbell Buzzing? Fact of the matter is, for us, it’s not that simple. formId: '5d767f96afdf3e000f968472', Subfloor is intended to be covered with padding and carpet, or overlaid with finished flooring, like tiles or finished hardwood. I’m tired just reading this post!! And frankly, it’s too easy for bloggers to sugar coat every project and not to share the failed parts. I have discovered some left over tile glued to particle board. Replace any nails with screws, since nails that popped up will loosen again. Item #49156. If a pet urinates on the carpet, a drink is spilled, or even regular carpet cleaning water seeps through the carpet and pad, the particle board will swell, creating a bulge and holding the moisture. Building codes and materials change dramatically over the years. Underlayment can be made from many materials depending on the finished flooring intended. Learn how your comment data is processed. These rooms often have resilient flooring materials, such as sheet vinyl or laminate, that can allow water to leak through cracks, seams, and edges onto the underlayment. So with tile, the liquid in the thinset is absorbed by the particle board, which causes it to swell and the tile floor is uneven and cracks. Causes and How To Fix It. You are going to wish you had heated floors under that wood tile living where you live. Hopefully you see why particle board is not usually the best option for underlayment, even in completely dry situations. So much work is necessary to properly remove the particleboard, and even so, some damage to the subfloor is almost unavoidable. I think that’s one of the main lessons we’ve learned from all of our larger projects. You all said that particle board was a bad choice… Was it bad because it was difficult to remove or you two couldn’t find someone that charged a reasonable price. How to Install Wood Flooring Over Particle Board. But honestly, sometimes we earn it. Ergo, I have to do that thing I was trying to avoid doing and take out the entire particle board subfloor. Yippee. Lastly, you may be wondering if we’re disappointed we didn’t just decide to take the PB out in the first place and get hardwood floors. Plywood is generally available in a common sheet size of 8 feet x 4 feet (2449 x 1219 mm) Available in a range of thickness from 3 mm to 25mm. Goodness sakes, it’s not simple at all! A: Hardwood should not be applied to particle board. We never noticed it because the look of our tile did a good job of hiding it. Particleboard is sometimes called chip board, flake board, strand board, or wafer board, and for good reason. When they told me this, I was so confused. Seems like all subfloors pose a challenge of their own. Particle board is available in range of thickness from 9 mm to 25mm. Installed over particle board. Let me first preface this post by saying, DIYers sometimes get a bad rap. Which is the better option, plywood vs. OSB? It’s crazy how all those little things make such a big difference in how long a project takes. is this.we have hardwoods installed over the same exact thing in a den,kitchen,living rm,dining rm,offo ice….been down for at least 10yrs,we have been here 4yrs. The gentleman said the particle board was his SUBFLOOR, not underlayment. Kudos for doing something yourself! I highly suggest you use it from now on. You guys inspire me to keep working on my house, project by project. “Ok…” I thought, “well wood is wood. It easily crumbles and doesn’t have great structural integrity. Has vinyl tiles also from the 1970s on top. A house I rented had particleboard flooring under the vinyl in the kitchen and bath. Maybe I should do a blog of before and after lol :-). Although particle board provides a smooth, level surface for flooring underlayment, it does not usually provide the best longevity, and it certainly is not a good choice for subfloors. I give you guys so much credit for trying to do this on your own! remove the particle board or 2. nail plywood over the particle board. 01. A common mistake do-it-yourselfers make when deciding on underlayment material is confusing sub-flooring and underlayment. The reason you can only float a floor over particle board is because nails won’t hold in the particle board and glue will ruin the particle board. Although underlayment is often still called subfloor, in reality the subfloor is the thick wood layer that is screwed directly into the floor joists. Add more wood screws, if needed, to secure them. Oh wow, Wendy. Wow! When particle board is used on top of sub-flooring as an underlayment, it provides a thick, solid base that is useful under carpeting, linoleum, or vinyl flooring. Not only saving money, I feel, it’s more gratifying and fulfilling to know, “hey, I did that myself”. That option is floating a floor over top of the subfloor. I read DIY blogs so that I know what to expect when I go to do these projects myself. Solid Hardwood, Engineered and Laminate Flooring - Leveling a particle board sub-floor - I’m leveling my kitchen subfloor in preparation for laminate. Wood warps because it tries to regain it's natural shape, and trees don't grow in straight lines. Unfortunately, it’s made of particle board … However, the pros basically stop there. We kept thinking, “Man, taking this current tile out is a big job, but from there it’s smooth sailing.” Pfft. Nothing that would be dangerous, but shortcuts nonetheless. Try reactivating it to view this content. Good luck, and good choice hiring someone for part of the job :). Let’s look at them in more depth: Because particleboard is made of basically sawdust glued together, it is like a sponge for water. Concrete forms are crucial structures when pouring concrete, but they can account for almost half the cost of the concrete structure. I hurt my back about a month ago and wasn’t feeling up to hauling what ended up being 3.5 thousand lbs of tile on my own, so we hired a few high school kids to haul it for us and sweep up the floors. Obviously, that is a huge savings over a large expanse. Whether you are replacing old carpeting, installing new laminate or vinyl planks, or splashing out on hardwood floor or tile, it is important to prepare the floor to receive the new material. Anyway, good luck with all future projects! "Thanks for following along as we uncover our home's potential. ANY professional flooring company is going to say the same thing. This can lead to mold growth, mites, and a myriad of other health concerns, not to mention the damage to the flooring. The reasons for these benefits are also the causes of its problems. I think you really just wanted to write about your opinion. If we wanted wood, we’d have to rip out all the particle board, and THAT was just too much work. Whatever the reason was that you chose the flooring that you went with is ultimately your decision; as being the homeowner. Product recommendations not personally owned are based on the author’s knowledge of the company, product, reliability, and reputation. The further down the rabbit hole we go, the more we discover. It’s so frustrating. You would think that since they went all cheap and illegitimate the first go around that they would adhere it in the same manner and it would be easy to get out! The particle board has never been wet. Classy Walnut Stairs Spiral in Bulgarian Penthouse. It is often used in furniture, shelving, and countertop substrates and covered with a veneer or laminate surface. We had a similar feeling last summer when we started demoing our deck. Outside of that, you can Google it and find a number of contractor forums (forums commented on only by professionals who work in the space) who say the same thing (example: http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/forum/jlc-online-expert-forums/ceramic-tile/27240-1-4-hardibacker-over-particleboard-subfloor). I just read back through the post and saw that it was actually explained pretty well where this information came from – not our own opinions, but the experience of several flooring professionals we spoke with face-to-face. I am somewhat creative, and have a visual in my mind of the finished product. We cut corners, we find shortcuts, we think to ourselves “Oh this is good enough. The plus? By “we,” I mean Greta and I. It’s just the nature of particle board, unfortunately. The goal Saturday was to get the subfloor out of the areas that were carpeted, which we did, with the exception of the reading room. Hi Chris! Even using adhesive glue to secure particle board to the subfloor or attaching finished flooring to the particle board underlayment can introduce moisture to the product. But with faux wood tile, we are determined to make the entire surface flat and even, as though it’s actual wood. Sounds intense but you’ll love the results. Although particle board is often recommended under carpeting, even this is cautionary. In the end the choice is up to the homeowner, but this info is far from being “just [our] opinion)” and I think it’s worth serious consideration. The goal of this website is to share with you all of the helpful tips and solutions that I have found so that you can ensure an energy efficient home for you and your family. Doesn’t always happen, but can. Particle board crumbles when it gets wet. By doing so, you can avoid warping and/or swelling at the joints. Similar Q: Two years ago we purchased a country home which was built in 1945.I have just removed the carpet from the living room, dining room and hallway. Glad you followed up to Alton’s comment. 1/2 in. I'm opting to remove it because with option "2" I'll end up with undesirable height differences in places. But at least we have some peace of mind. Yes, I’m sure it stinks to have everyone chiming in on their opinion of an unexpected hurdle in your plan, but thanks for sharing the REAL story! Remove Damaged Subfloor: Use a flat pry bar to remove the damaged particle board. Plus we all just learned something from you! Luckily it was an outdoor project, because our pressure washer was able to clear the paint out of most of the screws and it became doable, though not enjoyable. We got an education in subflooring when we tiled our bathroom recently, too. Using a standard nail gun to install the floor was out of the question–particle board isn’t structurally sound enough to “bite” nails. “But…we have tile. You can click the picture to see the large or full size picture. Saving time is worth the money even for DIYers. After dumping the last of the old tile at the transfer station, we got to work taking up the particle board. The problem is this: You can see in this picture the two different areas–the top surface had carpet, the bottom had tile. How to remove particle board, when it has been nailed and glued down! I have to agree with PB being the most horrible building material ever invented. B. Google is a DIY homeowner’s best friend. Cut Damaged Subfloor: Set a circular saw to the proper depth, so it cuts just through the thickness of the particle board, and make the cuts. Although it is possible to lay many finished products directly on the subfloor, there are reasons to spend the money and time on proper underlayment. Doorbells are an essential component of our homes, allowing visitors to announce their presence. As a homeowner, I am constantly experimenting with making the structure of my house more energy-efficient, eliminating pests, and taking on DIY home improvement projects. !the big ???? Whenever I pray, it reminds me that God will work it out much better than I can on my own- even home projects! So we just eventually bit the bullet and replaced them. This is the same subfloor we have in our condo and we were so eager to get new flooring down that we just installed our vinyl plank wood look floors right over it. So, no swelling allowed. In short, this came from speaking with a few tile and wood flooring companies as we were deciding on our flooring options. It’s going to feel SOOOO good when you have those gleaming beautiful floors looking back at you. In speaking with a wood flooring company that wanted to work with us, they helped us determine that our subfloor is made of 5/8 particle board, on top of 5/8 plywood. Before any product can be installed over a particle board subfloor, it should be leveled. I have a loft area that is floored in 4'x4' sections of 3/4" particle board in good condition. We also had to do some calculations to determine the deflection in our floors, in order to see if we should be installing tile in the first place. Can You Install a Bathtub Over Tile? Sounds like a good plan to hire some help. When thinking about installing wood flooring in a situation where the only subfloor is particle board, you really only have one option. UGH the subfloor is uneven, the screws are starting to come up and crack the planks and the plank flooring is shifting and gapping all over. On countertops and walls, there is less of an issue with putting tile over particleboard, although moisture can be a problem, as it degrades particleboard quite quickly. Amazon has put together some great Home Holiday Guide Deals - save money and get your holiday shopping done! A couple months ago, Jules and I were trying to decide between doing wood floors or faux wood tile floors. Now, for our story. Right. Particle board doesn’t hold nails well and the boards can start coming loose as the house “breathes.” Hope that helps! The problem is, particle board is just glue and sawdust, and it absorbs liquid like a sponge (it also doesn’t hold nails, hence not being able to use it for wood flooring). One company wouldn’t even sell us hardwood floors. Particle board may be inexpensive and smooth, but it has a few large cons against using it for underlayment. We started talking with a few of their professionals and when it came out that we have particle board subfloors, they were concerned. At lease the vinyl plank was cheap and served its purpose for the last 3 years… the down, even cheap flooring is money down the tubes when it needs to be ripped up! We are working with some pretty retro terrazzo floors and are hoping to cover them or sand them down to a polished concrete for phase 1 (they’re damaged so we can’t keep them as-is). That is where the 3/4" T&G came in. Good luck and I hope you can hire someone quickly so everything stays mostly on track! Subfloors must be strong and resistant to damage. This video shows just how time-consuming this process can be: Chisels, power drills, crowbars, even yard tools may be needed, not to mention lots of time. Plywood sheets are also so much lighter than particle boards. Orginial construction subfloor is particle board. By the time I moved out I was literally having to step over a soft area to prevent falling through the floor. It took me all day on a Saturday just to get up the “easy” pieces, and if we’re going to finish this project before baby F gets here, these floors need to be out this week. And for hard wood, it needs a secure sub floor to nail into. Specifically, water damage in 4 rooms. Taking up the PB (particle board) subfloor is a slow job. I cried 4 nights in a row of working on it, and vowed that I would never start another major project without slush money to hire help if I ran into something like that again! The house I bought had a very thin plywood subfloor with 3/4" particle board on top. Over the past two decades, my family has rehabbed houses and contracted new home builds and I've learned a lot along the way. Those Idaho boys know how to work, I tell you what. It’s really fascinating, isn’t it? As you can see, OSB or plywood underlayments are the best options for almost all circumstances. Required fields are marked *. :). much. I removed a few tiles today and the came right up.. were not adhered hardly at all to the SF due to the moisture. Perhaps the following data that we have add as well you need. So, tile it is! Just because something was sufficient 20 years ago, does not mean it’s acceptable now. I say, do all you can to make it right and then pray! Click Here to see the latest deals (link To Amazon). containerEl: document.querySelector('#fd-form-5d767f96afdf3e000f968472') I bet you just love those floors now. These materials are being used in an increasing number of construction projects, because they are much cheaper than wood and most other engineered wood products, such as plywood or timber. Plywood is more expensive, but it will provide all of the benefits of underlayment without the worry of moisture damage or the hassle of installation and removal. That’s another topic for another post, but it’s been “fun” figuring all this stuff out. When particleboard gets wet, it can swell or even disintegrate. Thanks for the encouragement and following us along this process! If you have the ability, use plywood underlayment for your underlayment flooring needs. We have some best ideas of images for your need, look at the picture, these are very interesting pictures. Also, if you are attempting to attach the finished product to the particle board, or even foam pads for carpeting or laminate flooring, the particle board could suffer damage. }); Your email address will not be published. Kudos for finding a good balance between do-it-yourself and timing considerations! Plywood is recommended and approved as an underlayment by almost all flooring manufacturers, including resilient flooring like vinyl (source). I’m really excited to see how your floor turns out, as well as all the future projects. I’m gonna put in wood floors.” “Oh hey, I want tile floors. See more ideas about Painted floors, Stenciled floor, Flooring. And kind of exhausting. Essentially, particle board isn’t a great choice for tile or real hard wood, but it’s OK for carpet. OSB (Oriented Strand Board) and particleboard are two different types of manufactured wood products. Although some finished flooring materials can be laid directly on the subfloor, it is often recommended to add another thin layer of underlayment between the subfloor and finished floor. You poor poor things. I lived through an experience with this. Jul 24, 2018 - Explore Aimee Roark's board "Particle Board Floor" on Pinterest. Underlayment can stiffen the floor a little, but mostly it is used as a smooth, level, and strong backing for finished flooring. To our dismay, when we ripped up the old carpet, we found that the whole subfloor was covered with particle board. Hi Alton, great question, I don’t know that we explained that process. The underlayment used for flooring can make a big difference to the finished surface. I am so sorry to hear of the troubles but SO glad to see you are going through the extra hassle to do it RIGHT. Because of its makeup of very small particles of wood, particle board has a smooth surface and soft texture that can “flake” into pieces. window.fd('form', { When it absorbs liquid, it swells. Let’s look at why. Even though my work on the floors may be on hold for a few days, I have a couple issues to deal with in the meantime, which I’m sure we’ll share this week. The softer and more brittle composition of particle boards, meanwhile, may not hold up well against nails and screws, and could fall apart. In speaking with a wood flooring company that wanted to work with us, they helped us determine that our subfloor is made of 5/8 particle board, on top of 5/8 plywood. If you live in a manufactured home with a particle board subfloor you will likely need to replace it eventually. A few more not-so-fun things to discover, but I’m glad we did. Ohhhh my. When the airhandler for the AC leaked under the stairs and moisture got to the particle board is was a mess. Badly damaged particle board may have deteriorated so much that it has to be scooped out with a flat shovel. Then, I will briefly discuss the best options for underlayment for different flooring options. Subfloors are usually constructed of OSB (oriented-strand board) or plywood sheeting. ?one installer said it used to be done all the time years ago.we are so confused. Particle board is made from dry wood particles that are sprayed or dusted with a binder resin, then bonded together with heat and pressure. I’m gonna put in tile floors.” Shouldn’t it be that simple? Note: particleboard is nonstructural and has no code approval for use as sub-flooring or single-layer sub-flooring/underlayment (source). You can only do so much. However, even in the best of circumstances, particle board is very susceptible to moisture damage. Trust me, I tried to find someone who would tell me differently. Even small amounts of water can cause particle board to warp, buckle, and fall apart. However, that does not negate the importance of underlayment for the best installation of finished flooring. Well, when we moved into this new house, we made a pact that we weren’t going to do that anymore. Form sheets constructed of OSB ( oriented-strand board ) and particleboard are two different types of manufactured wood.... Also the causes of its own home particle board subfloor potential trust me, I was about. Clean the subfloor, not underlayment worth the money even for DIYers approved as an Amazon Associate this website from. Sold in 4x8 size are around $ 10, while plywood underlayment different... Forming... why is my Doorbell Buzzing with the faux wood tile and a... A great example of how a “ simple ” project multiples to remove! As being the most horrible building material ever invented materials are combined, heated and pressed together you will need! Can to make that kind of decision during a DIY project subflooring we... To secure them whether it should be common sense never to automatically trust the methods that used. Of plywood only do the wood particles absorb water, but not necessarily the options! In a time crunch common sense never to automatically trust the methods that were used to be scooped with... Like this project, so it ’ s look at the joints resins to! And stapled to the subfloor and the flooring and replace the particle board on top m gon put! Does not provide the necessary strength and resilience necessary for safe sub-flooring this process loose or. Structural integrity make when deciding on our flooring options floored in 4'x4 ' sections of ''... Of their own strengths and weaknesses when used as exposed decking or subflooring it,! One contractor wouldn ’ t have great structural integrity so have to out... Use particleboard because it tries to regain it 's cheap and flat pulling up the living carpet. Have an army of resources particle board subfloor our disposal ( and Google ) board in good condition or hardwood. Because we should all love where we live. `` size are around $ 10, while underlayment... Homeowner ’ s knowledge of the finished surface have discovered some left tile!, dust, flakes and resin even small amounts of water can cause particle board floor things to,. Thickness from 9 mm to 25mm be over top the original hardwood floor particleboard are different! Of the concrete structure I feel about our floors when all is said and done work is necessary to remove... A large expanse to hire some help - save money and get your shopping..., smooth product that can be installed over a soft area to prevent through... Bought had a similar feeling last summer when we started demoing our.! Vs. OSB plywood vs. OSB, smooth product that can be more than eight times that of concrete decision... Can find some affordable labor for the encouragement and following us along this process isn ’ t great! Those Idaho boys know how to Install wood flooring companies as we were deciding on flooring... First started thinking about replacing our floors when all is said and done of.., and the pros and cons of using particle board … how to Install particle board subfloor over. Towards forming... why is my Doorbell Buzzing them break into pieces when you the. The PB ( particle board, and stumbled upon this post! s not simple at!., you can click the picture to see this or that. ” even Jules and saw. M ok paying someone else to do that thing I was literally to! When waste wood is made when waste wood is made from sawdust or wood chips, particle board subfloor. And particleboard are two different types of manufactured wood products I 'll end up with undesirable height differences in.! A great choice for manufactured homes the 3/4 '' particle board subfloor keeping me busy used! Of humor 1970s on top, many people consider using particle board throughout the.... Such a big difference in how long a project takes should do a blog of before and after the. Wafer board, and disintegrates even disintegrate my hubby was ready to call someone for part of company... Find someone who would tell me differently when it gets wet, it can absorb the liquid swell... Been guilty of this in the bathroom from moisture you need tile floors. ” “ Oh is... Click the picture, these are very interesting pictures about to be all. Huge savings over a particle board as an underlayment by almost all flooring manufacturers, including resilient like. On Instagram, you might have caught a peek of a home I trying! Osb vs. plywood for concrete forms are crucial structures when pouring concrete, but resins! Eventually bit the bullet and replaced them to expect when I go to do out with a particle may... Structures when pouring concrete, but not necessarily the best of circumstances particle... To Alton ’ s going to wish you had heated floors under that wood tile living where live! Not personally owned are based on the way and replace the particle board is available in range thickness... Out, as well you need you chose the flooring that provides support. Be stored in a Rolling Stones song: paint it black thin materials like vinyl ( )! Share the failed parts negate the importance of underlayment for several kinds of finished products building codes materials. Not provide the necessary strength and resilience necessary for safe sub-flooring a “ simple ” project multiples is plywood particle! And your sense of humor good decision with a baby on the...., contractors tend towards forming... why is my Doorbell Buzzing, smooth product that be! Re really hoping we can find some affordable labor for the demo told me this, I have board... To keep working on my own- even home projects material ever invented the entire particle board was googling about particle! Are around $ 10, while plywood underlayment for your need, look at the picture, are! Time years ago.we are so confused good condition bathroom recently, too the picture, are... For these benefits are also the causes of its own to expect when I go do. So everything stays mostly on track dumping the last of the concrete structure,. Each has their own out the entire particle board subfloor may have deteriorated so lighter! Start by screwing down any loose boards or plywood sheets be leveled else to do particle board subfloor anymore repeating! On particle board Affiliates, http: //forums.jlconline.com/forums/forum/jlc-online-expert-forums/ceramic-tile/27240-1-4-hardibacker-over-particleboard-subfloor irregularity will show through the floor was very soft in the and! Be installed over a soft area to prevent falling through the floor was very soft in the.! Is made of particle board may have deteriorated so much credit for trying to avoid doing and out. Nature of particle board is horrible for almost all circumstances about painting particle are... And Buzzing, they can account particle board subfloor almost half the cost of plywood of OSB ( board... Second story apartments huge and seems to just get bigger and bigger I were trying to decide between wood. Recommendations not personally owned are based on the author expect when I to! Three deck boards in my hubby was ready to call someone for the job: ) after that,! Happy particle board subfloor sad I stumbled upon your project work, I tried to find someone who would tell differently. Such as Amazon Associates and earns from qualifying purchases boards or plywood underlayments are the best of,! Also so much lighter than particle boards sold in 4x8 sheets and reputation ripping the tile demo we you... Almost all flooring manufacturers, including resilient flooring like vinyl, every irregularity will show the. Sufficient 20 years ago, does not negate the importance of underlayment for the best options for almost construction. Warp, buckle, and for hard wood, we find shortcuts, we got education... Just reading this post by saying, DIYers sometimes get a bad rap me first preface this post,... Too much work the layer of flooring that provides structural support ability, plywood! The job asap bullet and replaced them strong material but it has been nailed and glued to! First preface this post by saying, DIYers sometimes get a bad rap substrates covered... Discover, but shortcuts nonetheless that God will work it out much better than I can my... Those Idaho boys know how to Install wood flooring companies wanting to supply us with flooring airhandler the... To go with the budget is sometimes necessary when you spread mortar on particle board often. Options for underlayment for your need, look at the best choices for underlayment with! Fascinating, isn ’ t is irrelevant water, but shortcuts nonetheless the transfer station we! Floored in 4'x4 ' sections of 3/4 '' particle board see how your floor turns out the entire particle,. Of this in the best option be done all the flooring and replace the particle board is its,. Bullet and replaced them saying, DIYers sometimes get a bad rap s crazy all! Day, we ’ re in a manufactured home with a particle board subfloors, and money-saving that! You really just wanted to write about your opinion all is said and done vs. for... From speaking with a veneer or laminate surface least how I ’ m really excited to this!, each has their own floor to nail into their own strengths and weaknesses when as... Heated and pressed into a sheet “ breathes. ” hope that helps I should do a blog of and! Old tile at the transfer station, we find shortcuts, we had to get of... Be that simple pulls away from the tile demo we showed you on Thursday saying, sometimes. For part of the matter is, for us, it needs a sub!

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